In this episode of the Trading Justice Podcast, Lane Mendelsohn from Vantage Point Software joins us for a conversation about trading, software, artificial intelligence and more. Lane Mendelsohn, President of Vantagepoint AI, has been involved in the financial industry for over 25 years. Vantagepoint, founded by Lane’s father Louis (Lou) Mendelsohn, was the first software company to develop the first artificial intelligence trading software in the world available to retail investors and traders. Listen in to our interview with Lane and get some insights he has on today’s markets.

Video Transcription

Tim: and welcome out to trading justice, episode number 351. It’s Tam here with our feature presentation and interview with a very compelling and very interesting man, somebody who’s been around the markets for a lifetime, feels like a family business that he kinda got into. And uh, he’s developed trading software, he’s run a company, he’s helped people learn how to trade the markets and been an investor here. I’ve got lane Mendelssohn with me. Lane, how are you doing today?

Lane: I’m doing great. Tim. Thanks so much for having me.

Tim: So lane, what is your official title? Are you like the CEO of vantage point software? Is that right?

Lane: I’m the president of a vantage point, AI and um, I’m proud of that cause I, I receive that time they’ll just a couple of years ago and as you mentioned, it’s a family owned and operated business. So we’ve got to a point in time where my father, uh, who’s almost 73 said, you know what, uh, you’ve been running the company for, you know, over a decade now. Now I’m going to officially give you the, the title.

Tim: Sure. I mean, that’s a really cool story. Number one, I come from a background of a family business that I ended up not going into, but many of my brothers still are working in the family business. My dad, uh, he was a coal miner in central, you know, Utah until he was about 30 and got out of it. Him and my mom started, you know, several small businesses that ended up becoming family businesses. And it’s kind of a, an interesting deal. Your dad, he started the software company that trade, you know, you guys do trading software, right? You know, and you and I, we, we met down in Las Vegas at the traders expo. You guys had a booth right next to the tackle trading booth. And one of the cool things about those events as you get to rub shoulders and shake hands and talk to two people in the industry and get a feel for how they’re approaching the markets. And I, it was a pleasure to meet you guys and great to have you here on this podcast, but your dad started this software company in 1979 literally the year I was born, Wayne. That kind of dates me. And, uh, I didn’t really think of trading software in the 1980s. It felt like those guys were usually doing it on the phone. I mean, what was the original idea behind the company? What, what, what was your dad see in there, in the marketplace?

Lane: Uh, my father had been trading, uh, stock options in, uh, started that in 1972. And, um, as you got into the late seventies, started trading the commodities and futures markets and he was a hospital administrator. So, uh, he was kind of doing this on the side, I don’t want to say as a hobby cause it was generating significant, um, uh, income for him, but it was his passion. Whereas being a hospital administrator, that was his profession. And, um, my, my dad is a, is a very technical person. Uh, he went to Carnegie Mellon and he’s got two master’s degrees and he’s just very mathematically oriented and loves technology and even more so than loving the technology. He loves to find practical ways to implement and utilize technology. And so in the late,70s he, uh, already had that passion for trading and had been doing it for close to 10 years.

But then he, um, saw an advertisement for a radio shack product that they were selling, which was a personal computer. And he thought, Whoa, this is pretty cool because he had used computers, you know, mainframe computers at Carnegie Mellon. And he thought, wow, if this was a personal computer and every person could have one, what would that do for traders and investors? And so he really got excited about the possibility of creating trading software that people could have on their own personal computer that they could use to help guide them and make decisions. And when he floated the idea passed, my grandfather has his father-in-law of, Hey, you know, I’m thinking about leaving hospital administration and becoming a software developer and developing software for people like myself to give them an edge in the markets. Um, my grandfather said to my dad, who’s gonna, who’s gonna buy your software? No one has a computer.

Tim: They didn’t see the vision, but your dad did. And that usually is what great entrepreneurship will do. I mean, they’ll forge forward if they see something and they believe in it. They don’t let even people in their family, uh, end up, uh, holding them back. And so your dad started into this industry 40 years in business. Obviously you guys are going to have a lot of stories about different growth points, different things that worked, things that did not, let me ask you, I mean, you, you’ve been doing this since 93. You were probably as a kid, watched your dad run the company for a long time as well. What is different today in 2019 compared to, let’s say even, you know, the late nineties, early two thousands in the software game? I know I’ve, I’ve talked to a lot of traders. One of the differences I know to be a fact is the cost. You know, cause it used to be like to get a software package to just chart the markets or track data, forget about back testing. You’re talking about two, three, five, $10,000 just for the package alone. But now cost have come way down over the years, haven’t they? Lane.

Lane: Yeah, cost has come down. But the other thing that that’s really changed is um, the computing power. So, you know, you mentioned back testing. My father was the first person in the world who developed, um, act testing and optimization for a personal computer. This was back in 1983. Well, in 1983 he was developing software that ran on computers that didn’t even have hard drives. So it’s even hard to imagine. But you would basically put a floppy disc in, you’d start running the program and then it would say, okay, please take out disc number one and put in disc number two. You would do that and it would continue running the software. And then you’d put in disc number three and it would continue to bootstrap in that fashion. Well, as computing power has grown and the cost of computing power has come down, that’s allowed companies like ours to really push the envelope in terms of technology and do more than we were previously able to do at lower costs. But for us, it’s not so much about saving money or lowering costs. For us it’s we can, we can accomplish more. And I’ll give you an example. Um, when we first launched vantage point in 1991, um, we were doing a very sophisticated method of analysis called intermarket analysis, which we can, we can talk about that a little bit more, uh, in a few minutes. But at that point in time, the, the method of analysis that we were doing is we’re looking at just a handful of markets and how they interrelated to each other. Now with computing power and, and, and, um, the robustness of the, of the technology that we’ve developed, we can look at close to 50 different markets that are linear and nonlinear, leak correlated. And so our goal is the same as it was before, which was to derive, um, takeaways from analyzing data. But now we can analyze so much more data, so much more quickly, so much more in depth. And that’s what gives our, our traders and the, the vantage point family members such a decided edge more so than they could get anywhere else. But even more so than we were able to provide, you know, even just five years ago really.

Tim: you know, it’s interesting about your dad, uh, in 1983 doing back testing. I find that to be fascinating because I mean, building an optimized edge in the market is not a new concept obviously, but putting it into a computer and starting to gather the data, I’m sure that was a huge, uh, bumpy in the way that he approached the markets. And really that was a revolution going on, a personal trading from home at that time. It kind of all fits the storylines that we’ve heard, you know, the, the great traders who came around in the 70s and the 80s and the early nineties as some of the best books in trading, in my opinion, came from that era. So it’s really interesting to kind of wrap my head around that. You, you mentioned a lot of the, the more advanced stuff that you guys do and that you’re looking at right now from a computer and software perspective. Uh, one of them that you actually won an award on recently or were recognized as one of the most influential executives in this space was artificial intelligence. Now, AI freaks me out. Like I don’t know else how to say that. I don’t understand exactly what role is going to play. I don’t know exactly if machine learning is going to end up, you know, taking over the industry and kind of, uh, arbing out all the edges you have as an individual. What do you think the future is with AI and trading software?

Lane: Well, there’s a couple scenarios. Um, let’s go back to the early 1990s, uh, because artificial intelligence is not new, right? Artificial intelligence has existed for decades and decades. In fact, my father had experience with artificial intelligence in the late 1960s at Carnegie Mellon. And at the time that he was exposed to artificial intelligence, there wasn’t a practical application for him. It was just something they were learning about. It’s like, okay, that’s interesting. Um, flash forward, now he’s developing software to analyze market data and trying find these intricate and in most cases, hidden patterns and data. That’s where he thought, Oh yes, AI, artificial intelligence. Let me, let me revisit that whole area of math to see how I can apply that. So in the, in the 1990s, early nineties, uh, there were a couple of other people who, after seeing what my dad was doing with artificial intelligence thought, yeah, AI neural networks, machine learning, there’s something here. Uh, some of the people had really good intentions, but they didn’t know how to apply the artificial intelligence and kind of, you know, like they say garbage in, garbage out. And, um, neural networks, which is a, a, a form of artificial intelligence kind of got a bad rap because it was billed as, you know, almost like the Holy grail in a way. And then you had people who really didn’t understand the, the techniques and the power. Um, and uh, obviously it didn’t produce Holy grail type results. So then it got, it got kind of a bad rap. Then you had other people who I don’t think had good intentions and it wasn’t a case of not really being able to leverage the technology. They were marketers and they just thought, Oh, this is a cool little way to, you know, ensnare people and sell product. And so they never really had anything that was, um, going to give anybody an edge. They were just looking for a quick pop. We see that even today where people latch onto a topic and try to make a few bucks and then kind of disappear back into the shadows.

Tim: How much of the industry do you think is that, by the way, because you’re going to trigger a rant out of me young man.

Lane: Uh, you know, I, I unfortunately, um, I’d say more than half of the companies and the promoters out there are really looking for a quick buck. They have no intention of being around 10, 20, 30, 40 years. Like us, they, a lot of them don’t, you know, they don’t operate with integrity. Um, but in their minds, you know, they’re not looking for longevity. So if they’re not looking for longevity, why do they need integrity? Whereas, you know, for us it’s all about, you know, integrity and longevity and carrying on the family name. We’re already a second generation company. I have two daughters. I hope they’ll take over and be the third generation, but it’s only if, number one, we have a product that actually helps people. Number two, we, you know, create realistic expectations of what the technology will do for people and support them, support our users so that they can gain maximum advantage. But if you don’t have those ingredients, you won’t be around for, for decades. And unfortunately, a lot of people don’t have that longterm mentality. I wish they did. But just going back to the early 1990s, what happened was with neural networks and artificial intelligence is it got a bad rap and then it kind of faded. Now my father continued pursuing artificial intelligence and we continue. We, we never left the concept because for us it wasn’t a fad. It wasn’t a marketing hook. It was what we believed to be the best way to analyze markets and large quantities of data. And so a lot of these people just kind of disappeared. They were, you could call them competitors or you know, in this space of AI with us, but then they disappeared. And so what’s happening now is we as a company, we’ve proven that AI is here to stay. We’ve proven that we can gain a decided edge using using AI. And in other industries you look at medical, you look at, um, you know, fighting crime. I mean, there’s not an industry that you could mention that they’re not already utilizing AI in some capacity. It’s now a fact that AI can do things that are, you know, it’s humanly impossible and can add real value. And so from here, I think there are still going to be, um, companies that are going to try to utilize AI and misuse it and it’s going to kind of fall flat. Other companies that are going to use it as a marketing ploy and then there’ll be companies like ours, not just in the trading space but in, in any other industry where they are going to spend the time, spend the money, derive the expertise needed to, um, help people and empower people and in accomplish things that before weren’t possible or weren’t humanly possible. And that’s, I think that’s where things are gonna go with artificial intelligence.

Tim: You know, I’m with ya, I’m with ya. I talked to a lot of software guys over the course of a career, 15 years in the trading business and obviously running a company where we teach people how to trade the markets. I also, you know, see all the software out there in the industry. I always tell people, you’ve got three different choices. You got free, you’ve got paid, you’ve got premium. And paid software is something that is not as commonly targeted by traders as it was when I started. Do you think that that just means that in your space you’ve got to provide more value? I mean, you’ve got to find a way to, to connect with what people need today. Uh, do you see paid softwares going away at some point in the future? Do you think there will always be a role there?

Lane: Well, what’s happened is over the years, um, things and, and software and technology that used to, you know, people use to pay for you can now get for free. So yeah, you look at your broker’s platform, uh, you know, you open up an account with, uh, with any of the major brokerage firms, they’re going to give you their platform. You’re going to get all these different indicators and back-testing and tools and techniques. Here’s the problem. None of it is really proprietary or unique. So what you could get at each trade is pretty much the same thing you’d get at TD Ameritrade and Schwab. I mean the up until recently, the only thing they were competing on is who can give you a lower commission rates, right? Because their platforms all pretty much did the same thing. Now for us, um, our software is proprietary. It is unique

You can’t get it anywhere else. And it’s not just kind of regurgitating the same old indicators that have been around for decades and decades. It’s giving something that’s unique and proprietary that gives people an edge over what they could get out of their brokerage platform or by using, you know, the usual suspects, you know, moving averages, stochastics you know, all of the indicators that are widely known, widely used and available for free. And so for as long as we continue to deliver value and provide an edge and give our users something they can’t get anywhere else, and as the markets change and evolve, our technology continues to keep pace than for us. Yes, we will continue to be able to deliver premium software for a price

Tim: yeah. It’s interesting to think about because if you’re a new trader, you might not even know what an edge is. Right? So brand new trader right off the turnip truck. Um, they probably don’t even know where to start. In fact, I met a lot of those types of people down at that expo in Vegas. I got to tell you later, people had that had no idea what they were looking at and they were interacting with like 50 different companies that were all trying to tell, I guess get their business or whatever it is. But then this new traders like where the heck do I even start? It’s just so overwhelming. A veteran trader who has an edge, maybe they’re are a day trader, maybe they just need the data or the back testing to kind of continue to keep that edge. I don’t care if you’ve been trading 2030 40 years, you need data. You need to know what’s working in the market today. You talked about inner market analysis. It’s not like those relationships have stayed the same for 30 or 40 years. I mean, there is some of that, but some of that stuff can change, right?

Lane: Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, well, you know, to your point, we met a lot of people at the expo and some of the people were brand new. They hadn’t started trading, and we’d like to talk to those people at that point in time because in many cases, if they’re open and receptive, we can kind of short circuit their learning curve and help them to avoid a lot of mistakes, both time and money, mistakes by getting the edge in their hands from the beginning. Then there’s other people who say, look, you know, I’ve been, you know, kicking the can down the street for a while. I’ve been beaten up, I made some costly mistakes. I know what’s not working for me and I know what I need. I just don’t know where to get it and here’s what that, nine times out of 10, here’s what that is. It’s, I don’t have the ability to actually anticipate or forecast what the market’s going to do. I’m constantly reacting and the problem is, as you know, Tim, if you find out about a trend after it’s already developed and began moving, you’re late to the party. Now you’re faced with do I chase the train down the tracks or do I just sit this one out and wait for the next train? But again, the next train is going to also leave the station before you even find out about it. And so it really comes down to a timing issue. Being able to properly time when a trend is beginning, when a trend is ending, uh, what direction the trend is going to go in, how strong is that trend expected to be very basic, very fundamental things that you just, if you don’t know the answers to those things at the right time, you’re not going to be able to make the right decisions.And so that’s, that’s what we’re doing our, our analytics, if you boil it all down and we’re doing very advanced forms of intermarket analysis, very advanced forms of AI that we’re utilizing a software that’s been in development for over 30 years that we continue to refine. It’s got two patents on it. I mean this is heavy duty stuff, but ultimately it’s trying to just a couple of questions and it’s answering those questions very, very accurately to the tune of 86% where we’re able to deliver to somebody the information they need to make the right decision in the right market or the right stock at the right time. And that is the missing ingredient for most people. And it’s really sad because you meet a lot of people who are smart and they’ve got, you know, enough capital to work with and some of them even know a lot about the markets. But if you can’t make the right decision at the right time and the right stock, then all that’s for not.

Tim: well. And even beyond that, I mean even if you don’t have a trading plan on how to execute it or if you don’t have money management on how to understand risk profiles, I mean, do you ever have clients where you’re like, guys, I know we’re, we’re providing value. If you’re messing it up and you don’t see it, you’re doing something wrong. I mean, how do you get across with somebody that might be difficult? Uh, let’s say that somebody just overleveraged their account, they’ve got a small account and they put everything in all the time and they’re just missing the basic principles of, uh, of markets.

Lane: Well, the first, the first thing that we’ve done, and again, this comes back to this is our 40th year anniversary. We’ve learned a lot. We’ve changed a lot, we’ve evolved a lot over the decades. But one of the things that we’ve learned and that we’ve changed is that we don’t just make our software and our tools available to somebody and say, okay, you know, you paid us money and here you go. Here’s a very powerful tool because without the proper training, that tool could be misused. And so for every single person that joins the vantage point family, they get the vantage point, tools and indicators we give them, we, and we offer six months of coaching and training. Now they don’t need six months, but we make that available. Maybe they need 30 days or so, or a couple of weeks. The important thing is, is we don’t want somebody to have a powerful tool, not know how to utilize it or not utilize it to its fullest advantage or worst yet misuse it and not generate the types of results that we know it’s capable of generating for them and the reason why they got it in the first place. And so that’s a real important factor. It’s something that we, that we implemented, um, and it’s really contributed significantly to customer success and satisfaction increasing. And, uh, it’s something that in 2020, we’re going to be incorporating even more training and education to go along and kind of dovetail with the tools. And that has been a tremendous factor so that people don’t get to that point that you mentioned of saying, Oh, this isn’t working for me. And if somebody is a, if somebody has unrealistic expectations or they’re, you know, just trade a holics and they just want to trade and they’re like, you know, basically gamblers, we try to figure that out upfront as part of our, um, qualification process. Because if somebody’s got that mentality, they’re not going to be successful at the software. The people who are going to be successful or people who say, look, maybe I haven’t been successful up to this point, but given the right tools and information, I, I’m going to implement it the way it’s designed to be implemented and, and be successful. That’s who we’re looking for and that’s, that’s who we work with and that’s who we help.

Tim: Okay. I got five quick questions for you that I ask every pretty much everybody who ever comes on and does an interview with me and kind of want to get into this as well. You ready for him? Yes sir. So why did you get into the markets?

Lane: Well, for me, I didn’t really have a choice. Um, it was kind of through osmosis, you know, um, I’m about your age. So, um, when, when I was born, our company was already in existence, so I was born in March of 1980. So, uh, I was the first born of, uh, of three boys and, um, being a family owned and operated business, there was, uh, the lines between what was, you know, dad’s work in business and what was happening at the dinner table. They were blurred. So what did we talk about all the time? We’ve talked about the markets. We talked about software, computer, I mean I had a computer when I was two and a half years old. So for me it wasn’t a conscious decision of I want to get involved in trading, I want to get involved in the markets or I want to be an entrepreneur. It just happened naturally and organically. And I’m giving my daughters that same opportunity where they can come into the office after school. Um, I let them, you know, listen to customer service calls. I teach them about what we’re doing. They come to our in-person events and our seminars and I’m, I’m hoping that, um, you know, over time they’ll develop the same passion that I have for this business and for this industry. And then I can be a 73 year old man one day And proud to have, you know, my daughters in their 30s or forties I’m running a successful company and helping people and really making a difference.

Tim:  I relate to it so much  You know, lane , you and I, we would’ve went to the same graduating high school class there in 1980 when you were born. I would’ve been in the September of 79. So you graduated high school and 98, I’m guessing. Yes, sir. That’s right. Yeah. So, uh, and I relate to this. I got three daughters, you know, and I talk about it all the time about how to sit my kids down and try to make an impact on them. And they’re thinking and they’re not always interested, you know, but, uh, my oldest 19, she’s in our army now and recently she needs more money, wants more money, and the last couple of years she’s shown a lot more interest. They’re lane, you know how it works.Uh, yeah, yeah. Try to be that example for, for your kids. There’s, and that’s really, really cool. And then number two,

Lane: and I’ll give you one example. Something that I’m doing with my kids that I think everyone should do is, um, each of my daughters, uh, you know, we’ve opened up custodial accounts. Um, I put money in the accounts for them and, uh, we do research together. We go look at stocks, but I only picked for them, I use the vantage point software to kind of narrow it down. But the, the only stocks we end up buying are stocks that are companies that they know and that pay a dividend.

Tim: That’s value investing one-on-one right there.What does he use? Right? Do you use Facebook? Okay, so here, while they probably don’t, I think the key, it’s mostly the Facebook games. More of an old man’s game like us right now is, well, I’ll, I’ll tell you like my, my youngest daughter is six.

Lane: My oldest daughter’s nine. Um, they own Amazon. They own Walmart. Uh, they own target. They own Southwest airlines. They owned a cool idea. Oregon cause our, uh, their aunt works at JP Morgan. Um, I mean these are all company Disney. Oh my gosh. Uh, we bought Disney at 90 something and they’ve been holding onto that. And I, they asked me how’s the stock do? And I said, Oh, Disney went up, they just launched a new product. It’s going well. And so I’m getting them involved and engaged at a very young age, at a level that they can comprehend and they can relate to. And that’s just exactly what my dad did with me. And I’m replicating that very successful formula. I think everyone, whether they own a business or not, it never hurts to start talking to your kids about investing and saving and um, getting them exposed and breaking down that intimidation factor of the financial markets at a young age.

Tim: You know, you probably been around a lot of analyticals, some other different types of traders. You’re, you, you are a software guy, so you probably around engineer types, I’m guessing. Don’t want to paint you in a corner here. Uh, but what is your personal trading strength? Like what, what are you good at?

Lane:I think my, my personal strength is I’m not in a hurry to do anything. Um, I’m at a point in life where I’m, uh, financially free. I’ve got the freedom of time and money. So there’s, there’s no pressure. There’s no urgency of, of I have to trade or I have to do this. And so that means really waiting for the right opportunities. And not everybody’s in that same position. But I think everybody could kind of adapt their thinking to, no, I don’t have to make a certain number of trades today or I don’t have to make a certain number of trades per month. I wait for the right trades, the right opportunities. And we have, um, I actually built this in our software. This was my concept, my idea of, uh, the Intellis scan feature where it’s an tele scan feature where you can set your criteria of what it is you’re looking for and the software will alert you to particular stocks that meet that criteria. And it narrows the whole universe down. Now you’re not looking at the news or someone’s whispering stock tips in your ear or you hear something at a cocktail party. No, you, you wait for the Intellis scan to identify the ones that meet your own personal criteria and each person can create their own scans and you can have, you know, I’ve got like seven different scans myself and you wait for the trades to come to you. 

yeah. 

Tim: So you’re a patient trader. I love it. I mean when you’ve been around the markets for a long time and you’re taught from your dad from a young age about the value of investing and that you don’t have to double and triple your account. One of the things I, I really have a hard time with, uh, for, for new traders, cause I know all the sharks out there. You get all these promises of you’re going to turn five grand into, you know, a hundred grand this year. And I’m just like, that’s crazy guys. Come on. And you got to teach proper principles that investing involves risk and there’s reward and risk and there’s great opportunities like you were talking about with your kids and you can be patient about it and still do great things, but it doesn’t mean you’re going to have financial freedom overnight. I mean, you are the, you know, the president of a company that you’ve been a part of that in a family business for now, you know, 20 years, uh, here. So I, it does take time for you to get to that point of financial freedom. And I think patience is a good answer there. what is your daily routine? You mean, do you, uh, do you check the news? Do you watch CMDC uh, do you go right into your brokerage account? Like what, how do you approach the markets daily?

Lane: Well, I, I do most of that night. Um, so I, when I come home from the office and you know, we’re running a, you know, a pretty sizable organization, we’ve got 70 employees. Uh, we’re an inc 500 company. Uh, we’re growing by leaps and bounds. That keeps me really busy. During the day. And, and that’s really what I like to stay focused on. Cause that’s my legacy. That’s if I do a phenomenal job growing the company that provides the opportunity for my daughters and hopefully, you know, if they have children that have that passion. So that is where I focus now when I get home, my focus then shifts to family. Uh, you know, I’ve been married for almost 12 years. Um, I’ve got two daughters, which I absolutely adore. My parents actually, uh, we have, uh, a large family ranch. They live on the property next to us. Um, and so then I switched into family time and, uh, it’s all about being with them and sharing what my day was like and hearing what their day was like once everybody is kinda, you know, they’ve had dinner, they’re off to bed. That’s when I do my scans. And the scans are available every evening after 6:30 PM Eastern. And so, uh, there’s no pressure. The market’s not open. It’s not like, Oh, I gotta make a decision right now. I’m missing something. Markets are moving, none of that’s happening. And markets are closed. And so I can run those scans, I can look at the Intello scan to see if there are any new stocks that have met my criteria that I need to start to look at more seriously for a possible trade tomorrow. Um, and as well as managing any open positions that I have. And, uh, if I, if I want to make any adjustments, you know, then I can just go into my brokerage Plattner platform, you know, set limit orders or sell orders or, or, or, um, buy limit orders for whatever I want to do the next day. But I actually don’t have to do anything while the markets are open, which is nice because I get it goes back to patients and not having this pressure. I’ve got, you know, anytime after 6:30 PM all the way till 9:30 AM the next day to decide what I want to do and, and actually implement. And, uh, I think that people who have shifted to that type of mentality using our software versus what they were doing beforehand, that alone, just relieving that pressure valve and being able to take your time. I know it takes me about 15 to 20 minutes, but you know, it’s, it’s, there’s no distractions. There’s nothing else going on. I’m not at work. I’m not, there are no interruptions and it, and it really being able to, to trade and make trading decisions when the markets are closed, I think is a tremendous advantage.

Tim: Well, having a process, there’s no doubt about it. I mean now whatever that is, whether it’s in the evening or the morning or at middle of the day, I always tell people what I’m, you know, coaching, we’re talking to new traders, it’s gotta have consistency to it, right? And then you have to apply your system with an edge in the markets. Sounds like, you know, it fits into your lifestyle. You know, you can still be an entrepreneur and a business person and a family man and still have investing as a part of it. And I think that’s the lesson right there. You know, investing doesn’t have to take over 24 hours of your life. Uh, it doesn’t matter who you are, what background you’re in, whether you’re doing things manually or all automated guys. Being an investor should be just second nature. Quite frankly. It’s financial education is financial literacy in my opinion. Uh, lane, thank you very much for, for coming to our podcast. And, and just talking about markets a little bit. I, you know, I meet a lot of people in the industries and you know, I know a good one when I meet one and you’re one of them. I can tell that you’re trying to help people and give people value and all that kind of stuff. Uh, I gotta tell you, I don’t always see that. I think what you said earlier was, was pinpoint. There’s probably at least half of the companies that are pitching products or software and I’m just like, Oh my God, it really, Mac D crosses from 20 years ago. Are you guys serious? I mean, what, what in the world is this? You know, it’s like they haven’t even updated their pitch or their PowerPoint or even their content and probably 15 or 20 years. And I’m like, I know that’s old content. And I know it probably doesn’t even work anymore because I’m a trader every day. Right. And so you see a lot of that. So keep on doing the good work, my friend. 

Lane: Thank you, Tim. I appreciate it. That was fun. 

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